(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(PAGES 33974 THROUGH 33995,
VOLUME 176A, TRANSCRIBED AND
SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. BLASIER AND MR. BAILEY.
THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN.
MR. BLASIER, DO YOU HAVE A MATTER TO TAKE UP THIS MORNING?
MR. BLASIER: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR, VERY BRIEFLY.
IT IS OUR RECOLLECTION THAT MR. YAMAUCHI TESTIFIED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT A PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN OF THE ROCKINGHAM GLOVE PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT DENNIS FUNG REMOVED A HAIR FROM IT AND PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT HE PUT HIS INITIALS ON IT.
WE HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO LOCATE A PHOTOGRAPH LIKE THAT AND WE WOULD ASK -- MAKE A DISCOVERY REQUEST THAT WE BE PROVIDED WITH A PHOTO AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, IF ONE EXISTS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MISS CLARK, MR. DARDEN, DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION REGARDING THAT?
MS. CLARK: ISN'T THAT THE PHOTOGRAPH IN EVIDENCE OF THE -- OF THE GLOVE IN PLACE? I BELIEVE THAT IT IS.
THE COURT: COULD VERY WELL BE.
MY RECOLLECTION IS THERE WAS SOME DISPUTE AS TO WHAT THE ACTUAL PHOTOGRAPH WAS.
MR. BLASIER: WELL, IF THERE IS SUCH A PHOTOGRAPH AT THE LAB; I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ON THE GROUND.
THE COURT: MR. BLASIER, YOU ARE A WHIZ WITH YOUR COMPUTER. DO YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE THE PRECISE MENTION BY MR. YAMAUCHI OF THE GLOVE SO WE CAN PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERHAPS FROM THAT DETERMINE WHICH PHOTOGRAPH WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?
MR. BLASIER: I CAN DO THAT AT THE BREAK, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OKAY.
IF YOU WOULD DO THAT, AND THEN IF THERE IS SUCH A PHOTOGRAPH, I WILL OF COURSE ORDER ITS PRODUCTION.
MR. BLASIER: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE?
MS. CLARK: MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT ALL PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN HAVE BEEN TURNED OVER, SO IF THEY DON'T HAVE IT --
THE COURT: MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT CAME AS NEWS THAT THERE WAS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE GLOVE PRIOR, BUT THEN IT WAS SOME EXPLANATION THAT WAS ONE OF THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOS OR SOMETHING OF A VAGUE RECOLLECTION THAT I HAVE PROBABLY 300 PAGES BACK THERE.
ANY OTHER MOTORS.
MR. DARDEN, GOOD MORNING.
MR. DARDEN: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR LAST WEEK WE FILED P'S AND A'S ON THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD A DUTY TO CALLED THANO PERATIS TO THE STAND.
THE COURT: YES, I RECOLLECT THAT.
MR. DARDEN: CAN WE RESOLVE THAT ISSUE BY TODAY OR TOMORROW MORNING?
MR. BLASIER: YOUR HONOR, MR. NEUFELD IS HANDLING THAT MATTER. HE WILL BE HERE IN A LITTLE BIT.
MR. DARDEN: OKAY. MR. GOLDBERG WILL BE APPEARING.
MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE SOME P'S AND A'S THAT ARE BEING TYPED THAT WILL BE DOWN LATER.
THE COURT: AS TO THAT ISSUE?
MR. DOUGLAS: RIGHT.
THE COURT: IF THE P'S AND A'S ARE COMING IN TODAY, PERHAPS I OUGHT TO HAVE AN EVENING TO LOOK AT THEM AND CONSIDER THEM, SO PERHAPS WE WILL TAKE THAT UP TOMORROW.
MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE?
MISS CLARK, DO YOU HAVE YOUR WITNESS?
MISS LEWIS IS BACK WITH US?
MS. CLARK: YES, SHE IS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S PROCEED.
LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.
MISS CLARK, HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU HAVE WITH MISS LEWIS.
MS. CLARK: WITH MISS LEWIS?
THE COURT: YES.
MS. CLARK: TEN MINUTES.
THE COURT: WHO IS YOUR WITNESS AFTER
MISS LEWIS.
MS. CLARK: SUSAN BROCKBANK.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: I BELIEVE SHE IS PRESENT.
THERE IS, I BELIEVE, NO NEW EXHIBITS. THERE ARE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OF BINDLES THAT I NEED
TO SHOW TO MR. BLASIER BEFORE I BEGIN WITH
MISS BROCKBANK. I TAKE IT THAT IS YOUR WITNESS?
MR. BLASIER: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
PLEASE BE SEATED.
LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL OF OUR JURY MEMBERS.
GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MISS LEWIS, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.
DENISE LEWIS,
THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, MISS LEWIS.
THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING.
THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED, MA'AM, YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH.
IF YOU WOULD JUST PULL THE MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER.
MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONCLUDE YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
BY MR. CLARKE:
Q WHEN WE LEFT OFF YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE GOING TO -- YOU WERE BEGINNING WITH THE PROPERTY FOR NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, CORRECT?
A CORRECT.
Q AND AT THAT POINT YOU HAD CLEAN BUTCHER PAPER DOWN, CLEAN GLOVES AND YOU WERE WEARING YOUR LAB COAT, CORRECT?
A YES.
Q NOW, AS TOWARD NICOLE BROWN, HOW MANY BROWN BAGS WERE THERE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE IN HER MESH BAG?
A ONLY ONE.
Q AND WAS THERE SOME MARKING ON THAT BAG?
A YES, THERE WAS.
Q AND WHAT WAS MARKED ON IT, IF YOU RECALL?
A "PANTIES, DRESS."
MS. CLARK: I HAVE HERE A PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR. ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER --
THE COURT: 429.
MS. CLARK: -- 429 IS IT?
THE COURT: 429, MRS. ROBERTSON.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: 429.
(PEO'S 429 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND SHOWING YOU THE PHOTOGRAPH MARKED AS 429, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU SEE ON THE MONITOR RIGHT NOW?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT IS THAT?
A THAT IS THE ORIGINAL BROWN PAPER BAG
THAT CAME FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE CONTAINING
MISS BROWN'S CLOTHING.
Q AND WHEN YOU FOUND IT IN THE MESH BAG, WAS IT FOLDED OVER?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q WAS IT SEALED SHUT?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q AND DID YOU OPEN THAT BAG?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHEN YOU OPENED THAT BAG WHAT DID YOU SEE INSIDE?
A A SINGLE DRESS AND A PAIR OF BLACK PANTIES.
Q ANY BINDLES, PAPER BINDLES LIKE YOU DID BEFORE WITH MR. RON GOLDMAN'S PROPERTY?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q UPON SEEING THAT THE BAG CONTAINED DRESS AND PANTIES WITH NO OTHER BINDLES, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A AT THE TIME I PROCEEDED TO REMOVE THE ITEMS FROM THE BAG AND LAY THE ITEMS DOWN ON THE WHITE BUTCHER BLOCK PAPER THAT I HAD DOWN.
Q DID YOU DO ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO THE ITEMS IN THE FROZEN ANALYSIS ENVELOPE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THAT HAD BEEN SENT OVER TO YOU FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE; NAMELY, NICOLE BROWN'S EDTA SWATCH, HAIR KIT, FINGERNAIL KIT AND BLOOD SCRAPINGS?
A YES. THEY WERE AT THAT TIME NUMBERED.
SINCE THERE WERE -- THERE WAS NO ADDITIONAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE DISCOVERED WITH THE CLOTHING ITEMS FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE, I PROCEEDED TO CONTINUE WITH THE NUMBERING SYSTEM FOR THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF MISS BROWN.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU NUMBERED THOSE ITEMS?
A MAY I REFER TO MY NOTES?
Q YES.
A (WITNESS COMPLIES.)
THE EDTA SWATCH WAS ITEM NUMBER -- GIVEN ITEM NO. 82; THE DECEDENT'S HAIR KIT, 83; THE FINGERNAIL KIT, 84. THERE WERE TWO PACKAGES THAT WERE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE PACKETS THAT WERE LABELED BY THE CORONER'S OFFICE AS BLOOD SCRAPINGS. THEY BOTH WERE GIVEN ITEM NO. 85.
Q ITEM NO. 85 COLLECTIVELY?
A CORRECT.
Q SHOWING YOU NOW THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 414, DO YOU SEE THE ITEM DEPICTED WITH THE NUMBER "83" IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND IS THAT NICOLE BROWN'S DECEDENT'S HAIR KIT?
A COULD I HAVE A FOCUS OF THE ACTUAL ENVELOPE?
Q YES.
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND IS THAT YOUR HANDWRITING IN WHICH THE NUMBER "75" IS CROSSED OUT?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND ARE THOSE YOUR INITIALS NEXT TO THAT?
A YES, THEY ARE.
Q AND THE NUMBER "83," IS THAT YOUR WRITING?
A YES, IT IS.
Q SO IS THAT THE NUMBER THAT YOU ASSIGNED TO HER HAIR KIT IN THIS CASE?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND THAT -- IF WE COULD BACK UP A MINUTE.
THOSE SMALLER ENVELOPES THAT YOU SEE TO THE RIGHT, WERE THEY SEALED INSIDE -- YOU DID NOT SEE THEM, CORRECT?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q THEY WERE PRESUMABLY SEALED INSIDE THAT LARGER ENVELOPE TO THE LEFT?
A CORRECT.
Q AND THAT ENVELOPE WAS SEALED? YOU DID NOT OPEN IT?
A EXACTLY.
Q AFTER YOU NUMBERED THE SMALLER ENVELOPES AND THE DECEDENT'S ENVELOPE, DECEDENT'S HAIR KIT ENVELOPE, AS 82 THROUGH 85, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A THEN THE WHITE FROZEN ENVELOPE -- ANALYZED EVIDENCE ENVELOPE WAS SEALED.
Q AND BY THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE ENVELOPE DEPICTED EARLIER IN PEOPLE'S 413?
A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
Q THAT ONE?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND AFTER YOU COMPLETED THE RENUMBERING OF THE DECEDENT'S HAIR KIT AND THE OTHER PHYSICAL ITEMS THAT YOU INDICATE WERE IN ENVELOPES, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A WELL, THIS ITEM WAS PLACED BACK IN THE FREEZER IN THE SUPPLY ROOM AREA.
Q IN A SEALED CONDITION?
A SEALED CONDITION, AND THEN I PROCEEDED TO GO BACK TO PUT ON NEW GLOVES AND RETURN TO THE BUTCHER BLOCK PAPER WHICH HAD MISS BROWN'S CLOTHING ON IT.
Q AND DID YOU TAKE HER DRESS OUT?
A YES.
Q AND PLACE IT ON THE BUTCHER PAPER?
A YES.
Q AND THERE WERE PANTIES IN THAT AS WELL?
A YES.
Q WHEN YOU REMOVED HER DRESS FROM THE BAG, WAS THERE ANY OBVIOUS HAIR OR TRACE THAT YOU COULD SEE JUST ON YOUR CURSORY GLANCE?
A NONE THAT I OBSERVED.
THE COURT: WHICH PHOTO WAS THIS?
MS. CLARK: YES. THIS WILL BE MARKED NOW, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 430.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 430.
(PEO'S 430 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND SHOWING YOU NOW THE PHOTOGRAPH MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 430, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS DEPICTED THERE?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS IT?
A IT IS THE BLACK DRESS THAT WAS RECEIVED FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
Q AND THE BAG THAT IS IN THE -- THAT IS TO THE UPPER RIGHT OF THAT DRESS, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A IT IS THE BAG THAT I PLACED THE DRESS INTO AFTER I BOOKED THE ITEM.
Q OKAY.
THE BAGS THAT WERE INITIALLY SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 429, WAS THAT THE ORIGINAL BAG THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE, THE EARLIER PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS MARKED "DRESS AND PANTIES"?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q THE ONE THAT IS NOW IN FRONT OF YOU?
A YES, IT IS.
Q ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
WHEN YOU REMOVED THE DRESS FROM THAT BAG, YOU THEN CREATED A NEW BAG FOR THE DRESS?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND THE ONE SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH PEOPLE'S 430 IS THAT BAG?
A YES, IT IS.
Q NOW, AFTER YOU EXAMINED THE DRESS AND PUT IT INTO THAT BAG, DID YOU EXAMINE THE BUTCHER PAPER THAT IT HAD BEEN LAYING ON FOR HAIR OR TRACE?
A YES, I DID.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY?
A NO, MA'AM.
Q HOW ABOUT YOUR GLOVES, DID YOU LOOK AT THEM FOR HAIR OR TRACE?
A YES, I DID.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY?
A NO.
Q AFTER YOU MADE THE MARKINGS ON THE BAG SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 430, WHAT DID DO YOU WITH IT?
A THE BAG WAS SEALED AND THEN IT WAS PLACED ON THE COUNTER WITH THE OTHER SEALED ITEMS.
Q DID YOU GIVE IT AN ITEM NUMBER?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q WHAT WAS THAT?
A ITEM 86.
Q OKAY.
AND IS THAT NUMBER SHOWN ON THE BAG IN THE PHOTOGRAPH PEOPLE'S 430?
A YES, IT DOES -- YES, IT IS.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?
A PROCEEDED TO LOOK AT THE PANTIES.
Q DID YOU CHANGE PAPER OR GLOVES BEFORE LOOKING AT THE PANTIES?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AND WHY IS THAT?
A BECAUSE THEY CAME FROM THE SAME BAG FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE, SO IF THERE WAS ANY CROSS-CONTAMINATION, IT HAD ALREADY OCCURRED.
MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU A NEW PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 431.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 431.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
(PEO'S 431 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS BEING SHOWN HERE?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A THEY ARE THE BLACK PANTIES THAT I RECEIVED FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE THAT WERE PART OF MISS BROWN'S CLOTHING.
Q THEY WERE ORIGINALLY CONTAINED WITH THE DRESS IN THE SAME BAG, CORRECT?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q THE BAG THAT IS TO THE LEFT OF THOSE PANTIES, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND --
A THAT IS THE BAG THAT I PLACED THE PANTIES INTO WHEN I FINISHED BOOKING THEM.
Q IS THAT YOUR HANDWRITING ON THE BAG?
A YES, IT IS.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY OBVIOUS HAIR OR TRACE ON THE PANTIES?
A NONE WAS OBSERVED.
Q AFTER YOU GOT DONE WITH THEM, WHERE DID YOU PUT THEM?
A THEY WERE PLACED INTO THE BAG, THE BAG WAS SEALED AND IT WAS PLACED ON THE COUNTER.
Q WAS THERE ANY --
A I'M SORRY, BEFORE I SEALED THE BAG I WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT THE BUTCHER BLOCK PAPER AND MY GLOVES ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE AT THAT STAGE THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
Q AND DID YOU SEE ANY HAIR OR TRACE ON THE BUTCHER PAPER OR ON YOUR GLOVES?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH YOUR GLOVES AND THE BUTCHER PAPER?
A THE GLOVES, THE BUTCHER PAPER WERE BOTH DISCARDED.
Q AND DID YOU GIVE THE PANTIES AN ITEM NUMBER?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHAT IS THAT?
A ITEM NO. 87.
Q AND THE -- THE NUMBER THAT IS ON THE BAG, AS IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS BAGS THAT YOU MADE FOR THE ITEMS, DO THEY ALL CONTAIN THE DR NUMBER FOR THIS CASE?
A YES, THEY DO.
Q AT THIS POINT THEN WERE ALL THE BAGS OF CLOTHING FOR BOTH RONALD GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN IN THEIR SEALED BAGS THAT YOU CREATED FOR THEM?
A YES, THEY WERE.
Q AND THEY WERE ALL GIVEN ITEM NUMBERS AT THIS POINT?
A THEY WERE GIVEN ITEM NUMBERS ALL THE WAY ALONG. AS I WOULD PUT THEM IN THE BAG THEY WERE GIVEN THE ITEM NUMBERS. THERE WAS A SLIGHT DELAY
ON -- FOR MR. GOLDMAN'S ITEMS INITIALLY BECAUSE I HAD TO WAIT OBVIOUSLY UNTIL I HAD ALL THE ITEMS THAT I HAD.
Q OKAY.
NOW, THE ORIGINAL BROWN BAGS THAT YOU RECEIVED THE CLOTHING IN FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE, WHAT DID DO YOU WITH THEM?
A THEY WERE -- AS I HAD TAKEN EACH INDIVIDUAL ITEM OUT OF THE BAGS, I HAD FOLDED THEM OVER AND BASICALLY KEPT THEM SECURE. ONCE THEN I GATHERED THEM ALL TOGETHER AND PUT THE BAGS TOGETHER AND THEN BOUND THEM WITH SOME COTTON STRING.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU BOUND THEM WITH TWINE, IS IT?
A YES.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU PUT THEM?
A HAD WHEN I -- MY NEXT STEP BASICALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN TO PUT THE PACKAGING TOGETHER, THE BAGS TOGETHER TO HOUSE THE -- ALL THE CLOTHING EVIDENCE FOR BOTH VICTIMS, SO THE BOX WAS PLACED TOGETHER.
THE ITEMS OF CLOTHING FROM BOTH VICTIMS WERE PLACED IN THE BOX AND THE PAPER THAT -- THE BAGS THAT WERE RECEIVED FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE THAT I HAD AT THIS POINT WRAPPED WITH TWINE OR STRING WAS ALSO PLACED INTO THE BOX, AS WELL AS THE WHITE MESH THAT CAME FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
Q OKAY.
SO THE WHITE MESH BAGS THAT INITIALLY HELD THE BAGS FOR RON GOLDMAN, ONE FOR RON GOLDMAN AND ONE FOR NICOLE BROWN, YOU PUT THAT IN THE BOX AS WELL?
A YES.
Q AND INTO THAT SAME BOX WENT THE SEALED BAGS OF THEIR CLOTHING?
A YES.
Q AND THE BAGS THAT INITIALLY WERE GIVEN TO YOU BY THE CORONER, THE BROWN BAGS THAT YOU WRAPPED IN TWINE?
A YES.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 432.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 432, A PHOTO OF A BOX.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
(PEO'S 432 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 432, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN HERE?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A THAT IS THE BOX THAT I PUT TOGETHER AND IT CONTAINS THE ITEMS, THE BOUND PAPER BAGS FOR THE CORONER'S OFFICE. ALSO I SEE A WHITE MESH BAG. I CAN'T TELL IF IT IS ONE OR TWO BAGS.
Q DOES THAT LOOK LIKE THE WHITE MESH -- ONE OF THE WHITE MESH BAGS, THOUGH, THAT YOU RECEIVED FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE THAT CONTAINED THE ITEMS FOR RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND SO IS THAT A PICTURE OF THE BOX INTO WHICH YOU PLACED ALL OF THE ITEMS YOU JUST DESCRIBED HAVING PLACED IN THE BOX?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND AFTER YOU DID THAT, PLACED THE VICTIM'S CLOTHING, THE BAGS AND THE MESH BAGS INTO THAT BOX, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A THEN THE BOX WAS SEALED.
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER,
PEOPLE'S 433, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: 433.
(PEO'S 433 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 433, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO ZOOM UP ON THE TAG.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS BOX?
A I RECOGNIZE THE BOX, BUT THAT IS NOT MY WRITING ON THE TAG.
Q OKAY.
DOES IT SHOW YOUR NAME ON THE TAG?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND DOES IT SHOW ITEM NUMBERS IN THAT -- ON THAT TAG?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND IS THAT 78 TO 80, 86 AND 87?
A YES, IT IS.
Q ARE THOSE IN FACT THE ITEM NUMBERS FOR THE ITEMS THAT YOU DID PUT INTO THE BOX?
A EXCUSE ME. I THINK IT IS A 78, WHICH WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
Q UH-HUH.
A IT SHOULD BE 78 THROUGH 80 AND 86 AND 87.
Q AND THOSE ARE THE ITEM NUMBERS FOR THE ITEMS THAT YOU DID PUT IN THE BOX; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, THEY ARE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND DOES THAT LOOK LIKE THE BOX THAT YOU PUT EVERYTHING INTO, THAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q DID YOU SEAL THAT BOX?
A YES, I DID.
Q WITH WHAT?
A IT IS SEALED WITH PACKING TAPE, TWO DIRECTIONS, AND AT THEN AT THAT STAGE I PUT A LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT EVIDENCE TAG OVER IT OR EVIDENCE TAPE AND ALSO A TAG.
Q NOW, WHAT ABOUT THE --
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 4 --
THE COURT: 34.
MS. CLARK: -- 34, THANK YOU.
(PEO'S 434 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 434, WE ARE GOING TO ZOOM IN ON THAT WHITE TAG.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN TO YOU IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q IS THAT YOUR HANDWRITING?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND WHAT DOES THAT SIGNIFY TO YOU?
A THAT IS THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT EVIDENCE TAPE THAT WE USE. IT IS THE SEAL THAT WE ALSO USED TO PUT ON OUR ENVELOPES AND ON OUR CARTONS FOR -- TO MAKE SURE IT IS A FINAL SEAL THAT WE PUT ON IT.
Q OKAY.
NOW, THIS IS NOT THE SEAL THAT YOU PUT ON ON THE 27TH OR THE 28TH, CORRECT?
A CORRECT.
Q BUT IT IS LIKE THE SEAL THAT YOU USED ON THAT DATE?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU EARLIER INDICATED THAT YOU HAD GIVEN ITEM NO. 75 TO 77 TO THE PAPER BINDLES CONTAINING SOIL AND DEBRIS FROM RON GOLDMAN'S PACKAGES?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT DID DO YOU WITH THOSE BINDLES?
A THOSE BINDLES WERE PLACED IN A BROWN MANILA ENVELOPE THAT WE HAVE. IT IS MARKED ON THE ENVELOPE AS SHELF STORAGE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: AND PEOPLE'S 435, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 435.
(PEO'S 435 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN TO YOU IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A THAT IS THE ANALYZED EVIDENCE SHELF STORAGE ENVELOPE THAT I PLACED ITEMS 75 THROUGH 77.
Q IS THAT YOUR HANDWRITING ON THE ENVELOPE?
A YES, IT IS.
Q WAS THAT SEALED BY YOU?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q NOW, AFTER HAVING SEALED THE SOIL BINDLES INTO THAT ENVELOPE, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A THE SOIL AND THE BOX OF CLOTHING, THE CARTON, WERE PLACED ON THE SIDE AND AT THAT POINT THEN I WENT TO COMPLETE THE POLICE REPORT.
Q AND WHAT KIND OF REPORT IS IT THAT YOU COMPLETE?
A IT IS A PROPERTY REPORT.
Q JUST ITEMIZING WHAT IT IS YOU SAW?
A YES, AND DESCRIBING THE ITEMS.
Q AND THE ITEM NUMBERS THAT YOU GAVE TO THEM?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU BEGAN YOUR WORK IN THIS CASE ON THE 27TH OF JUNE?
A I RECEIVED THE ITEMS ON THE 27TH OF JUNE, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND YOU COMPLETED YOUR WORK ON THE -- WHAT DAY?
A ON JUNE 28TH.
Q OVERNIGHT WHERE WERE THE ITEMS STORED?
A THE CARTON OF CLOTHING AND THE SHELF STORAGE ENVELOPE WERE HOUSED OR KEPT INSIDE THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM.
THE FROZEN ANALYZED EVIDENCE ENVELOPE WAS -- REMAINED IN THE FREEZER IN THE STORAGE AREA. BOTH AREAS ARE SECURED.
Q AND BY "SECURED," WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
A THE ONLY WAY TO GET INTO THESE TWO ROOMS IS YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN I.D. BADGE THAT THE INVESTIGATION DIVISION HAS AND ONLY CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS CAN GET INTO THESE AREAS.
Q NOW, WERE ALL THE OF CLOTHING SEALED OVERNIGHT THEN?
A YES, THEY WERE.
Q IN THE BOX?
A YES, THEY WERE.
Q AND ALSO INDIVIDUALLY IN THEIR BAGS?
A YES.
Q ON THE FOLLOWING DAY ON JUNE 28TH WAS THERE ANY DISTURBANCE TO ANY OF THE SEALS ON THE BAGS OR ON THE BOX?
A NO, THERE WASN'T.
Q AND THE HAIR OF BOTH OF THE VICTIMS THAT YOU KEPT IN THE FROZEN ENVELOPE IN THE FREEZER, HAD THAT BEEN DISTURBED?
A NO, IT HAD NOT.
Q AFTER YOU TYPED UP YOUR REPORT, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE BOX CONTAINING THE CLOTHING, THE FROZEN ANALYSIS ENVELOPE CONTAINING THE HAIR KITS AND THE SOIL AND DEBRIS ENVELOPE?
A AFTER THE REPORT WAS TYPED UP, I WENT AND PICKED UP THE ITEMS FROM THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM AND FROM THE STORAGE ROOM AND THEN TRANSPORTED THEM OVER TO OUR EVIDENCE CONTROL UNIT WHERE I BOOKED THE ITEMS.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A LARGE BOARD AND ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 436.
THE COURT: 436.
(PEO'S 436 FOR ID = POSTERBOARD)
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: GO AHEAD AND STEP DOWN AND TAKE A LOOK.
Q BY MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION SPECIFICALLY TO THE ITEMS IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER, 73, 79, 81, 83 AND 86.
ARE THOSE THE ITEMS WITH THE ITEM NUMBERS THAT ARE DEPICTED THERE, THE SAME AS YOU'VE TESTIFIED TO HERE IN COURT?
A YES, THEY ARE.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. BLASIER.
MR. BLASIER: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. BLASIER:
Q GOOD MORNING, MISS LEWIS.
A GOOD MORNING.
Q HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
A FINE, THANK YOU.
Q MISS LEWIS, YOU HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO A REPORT THAT YOU WROTE AT THE TIME THAT YOU PROCESSED THESE ITEMS?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q NOW, IS THAT THE PROPERTY REPORT THAT JUST LISTS THE ITEMS BY NUMBER?
A I'VE BASICALLY BEEN REFERRING TO TWO LISTS; ONE IS THE PROPERTY REPORT AND THE OTHER ONE WERE JUST MY ROUGH NOTES THAT I WAS MAKING WHEN I WAS BOOKING THE ITEM.
Q SO THOSE ROUGH NOTES WERE MADE AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE DOING WHAT YOU'VE TESTIFIED TO?
A YES.
Q COULD I TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE ROUGH NOTES?
A CERTAINLY.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. BLASIER: YOUR HONOR, COULD WE HAVE A COPY OF THIS MADE?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. BLASIER: IS IT ACCURATE THAT NEITHER YOUR ROUGH NOTES OR YOUR PROPERTY REPORT CONTAIN DESCRIPTIONS OF TAKING THINGS OUT OF BAGS, PUTTING BUTCHER PAPER ON THE TABLE AND ALL THE DETAILS THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED TO US YESTERDAY AND TODAY?
A CORRECT.
Q NOW, YOU PREPARED A SEPARATE REPORT THAT DOES DESCRIBE A LOT OF THOSE THINGS, CORRECT?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHEN DID YOU PREPARE THAT SEPARATE REPORT?
A IT WAS PREPARED IN JANUARY WHEN I FOUND OUT I WAS REQUESTING TO BE INVOLVED WITH THE CASE.
Q AND DO YOU HAVE THAT WITH YOU?
A YES, I DO.
Q COULD I SEE THAT, PLEASE?
A YES.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. BLASIER: DID YOU PREPARE THAT REPORT AT ANYONE'S REQUEST?
A NO.
Q YOU DID THAT ON YOUR OWN?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU WRITE A REPORT LIKE THAT, WHAT HAPPENS TO IT?
A IT IS MY PERSONAL INFORMATION. NOTHING HAPPENS TO IT.
Q DO YOU -- WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT REPORT WHEN YOU WROTE IT IN JANUARY?
A IT STAYED IN THE COMPUTER.
Q I'M SORRY?
A IT JUST STAYED IN THE COMPUTER.
Q YOUR COMPUTER AT WORK?
A YES.
Q DO YOUR PROCEDURES AT LAPD REQUIRE THAT WHEN YOU WRITE A REPORT YOU MAKE IT PART OF A FILE SOMEWHERE?
A IF IT IS A FORMAL REPORT, YES, THEY ARE, SUCH AS THE PROPERTY REPORT THAT I HAVE.
AS FOR PERSONAL NOTES, NO.
Q YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE YOUR PERSONAL NOTES PUT IN A FILE SOMEWHERE WHERE YOUR SUPERVISORS, FOR INSTANCE, CAN REVIEW THEM OR THEY CAN BE PROVIDED IN DISCOVERY IN A CRIMINAL CASE?
A NOT FOR THIS TYPE OF PROCEDURE. NOT FOR CORONER'S EVIDENCE, NO.
Q AND WHERE DOES IT SAY THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR CORONER'S EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF MAKING YOUR REPORT AVAILABLE TO THE DEFENSE, FOR INSTANCE?
A THESE REPORTS WERE AVAILABLE IF THEY -- THEY WERE GIVEN -- SUPPLIED TO THE PROSECUTION, IF THEY WERE NEEDED.
IT WAS -- IT IS NOT THAT THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE.
Q OKAY. WHEN WERE THEY PROVIDED TO THE PROSECUTION?
A THE PAPER LISTING MY ROUGH NOTES THAT I TOOK AT THE TIME OF -- WHEN I WAS DOING THE EVIDENCE, PROCESSING THE EVIDENCE, THAT WAS SUPPLIED, I BELIEVE IT WAS IN JANUARY, WHEN I FIRST FOUND OUT THAT I WAS GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN THE CASE, AND THE NOTES -- THE TYPED NOTES OF BASICALLY THE ORDER THAT I DID THINGS, THAT WAS SUPPLIED JUST YESTERDAY.
Q SINCE YOU WORKED ON THIS CASE HAS ANYBODY FROM THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE REQUESTED THAT YOU TURN OVER ANY NOTES OR REPORTS THAT YOU WROTE?
A WHEN I SPOKE TO MISS CLARK IN JANUARY SHE ASKED FOR THE INFORMATION THAT I HAD, ANY NOTES THAT I HAD, AND IT WAS SUPPLIED AT THAT TIME. THIS WAS DONE AFTER MY MEETING WITH HER.
Q SO IN JANUARY DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT DATE THAT WAS THAT YOU GAVE HER YOUR NOTES?
A NO, I DON'T.
Q BUT IT WAS IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR?
A YES.
Q AS A FOLLOW-UP TO THAT MEETING IS WHY YOU TYPED OUT THIS OTHER REPORT?
A YES.
Q DID SHE ASK YOU TO TYPE OUT THE REPORT?
A NO.
Q WHEN YOU TYPED IT UP, DID YOU CALL HER AND SAY, "HERE IS A REPORT, HERE IS MY REPORT OF WHAT I DID"?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID SHE TELL YOU TO WRITE A REPORT?
A NO, SHE DID NOT.
Q DID SHE TELL YOU NOT TO WRITE A REPORT?
A NO.
Q NOW, YOU'VE BEEN WITH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT SINCE 1981?
A YES.
Q IS IT YOUR HABIT AND CUSTOM, WHEN YOU WRITE A REPORT OF SOMETHING THAT YOU DO LIKE THAT, TO KEEP IT TO YOURSELF?
A I HAVE MY OWN FILES. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE -- I HAVE MADE A REPORT SUCH AS THIS.
IT IS THE ONLY CASE THAT I HAVE GONE TO COURT ON, SO IT IS THE ONLY TIME I HAVE COMPLETED THIS TYPE OF PROCEDURE.
Q NOW, WHEN MISS CLARK ASKED YOU FOR YOUR NOTES IN JANUARY, DID YOU -- DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SHE WANTED EVERYTHING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT WHAT YOU DID?
A WHEN SHE ASKED ME FOR MY NOTES I GAVE HER THE NOTES THAT I HAD COMPLETED AT THAT TIME. THESE WERE -- IT WAS FOR MY RECOLLECTION, IT WAS AFTER THE MEETING WHEN SHE ASKED ME FOR EVERYTHING.
I WASN'T -- I DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS WAS GOING TO BE NECESSARY OR WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. IT WAS JUST TO TRY TO REFRESH MY RECOLLECTION AS TO THE ORDER I DID THINGS.
Q HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU TESTIFIED IN COURT IN YOUR CAPACITY AS AN EMPLOYEE AT SID?
A THIS IS MY FIRST TIME.
Q OKAY.
BUT YOU HAVE WORKED ON MANY CASES, HAVE YOU NOT?
A YES.
Q YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCEDURES AT SID HAS ABOUT WRITING REPORTS AND PUTTING THEM IN FILES?
A FORMAL REPORTS, YES.
Q AND THERE IS SOME -- IS THERE SOME EXCEPTION, IS IT EITHER WRITTEN OR ORAL, THAT SAYS YOU DON'T HAVE TO TURN OVER SOME REPORTS?
A NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
Q IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING, IS THAT THE HABIT AND CUSTOM OF OTHER PEOPLE AT SID, TO WRITE REPORTS THAT THEY KEEP AS PART OF THEIR OWN PERSONAL PAPERS AND DON'T MAKE A PART OF THE FILE?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: NOW, THE REPORT THAT YOU WROTE IN JANUARY IS APPROXIMATELY FIVE PAGES LONG?
A YES.
Q AND THERE IS A LOT OF DETAIL IN THAT REPORT ABOUT PUTTING BUTCHER PAPER DOWN, CHANGING GLOVES.
IT IS A VERY DETAILED REPORT, IS IT NOT?
A IT IS NOT COMPLETE, BUT IT IS DETAILED, YES.
Q NOW, DID YOU PREPARE THAT REPORT BASED ON THE NOTES THAT I HAVE HERE NOW, THE ROUGH NOTES, AND YOUR TYPED PROPERTY REPORT?
A YES.
Q NOW, THE ROUGH NOTES THAT YOU HAVE AND THE PROPERTY REPORT DON'T HAVE DETAILS ABOUT THE SPECIFIC STEPS YOU WENT THROUGH FOR EACH PARTICULAR ITEM, DO THEY?
A NO, THEY DON'T.
Q DID YOU -- IN WRITING YOUR REPORT DID DO YOU THAT FROM A SPECIFIC RECOLLECTION THAT YOU HAD DONE THOSE THINGS OR THAT IS JUST YOUR COMMON PRACTICE?
A COMBINATION OF BOTH.
Q OKAY.
HAVE YOU BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE HAIR AND TRACE UNIT SINCE 1981?
A NO.
Q WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR ASSIGNMENT -- WELL, LET ME REPHRASE THAT.
AT THE TIME WHEN YOU PROCESSED THE ITEMS IN THIS CASE, HAD YOU BEEN -- WERE YOU ASSIGNED FULL-TIME TO WORKING THAT AREA?
A YES.
Q AND WHEN I SAY "HAIR AND TRACE," IS THAT ALL IN ONE UNIT?
A YES.
Q AND TRACE EVIDENCE INCLUDES FIBERS, SOIL, OTHER TYPES OF ITEMS LIKE THAT, SMALL ITEMS?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES, DID THEY INVOLVE GOING TO CRIME SCENES OR JUST PROCESSING EVIDENCE BACK AT THE LAB?
A GOING TO CRIME SCENES. I'M ACTUALLY PART OF THE FIELD UNIT, WHICH IS PART OF THE TRACE UNIT; IT IS SORT OF A DUAL UNIT.
Q INCIDENTALLY, WHEN YOU TURNED OVER YOUR TYPED REPORT TO MISS CLARK, DID YOU TELL HER THAT YOU HAD DONE IT WAY BACK IN JANUARY?
A I DIDN'T TELL MISS CLARK. I TOLD ONE OF THE OTHER ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.
Q WHO WAS THAT?
A MR. ESCOBAR.
Q AND IN WHAT DATE WAS THAT THAT YOU TURNED THAT OVER?
A YESTERDAY.
Q HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE HAIR AND TRACE UNIT AS OF JUNE OF LAST YEAR?
A I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED SINCE JUNE OF 1993.
Q SO YOU HAD BEEN THERE ABOUT A YEAR?
A YES.
Q HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ASSIGNED TO THE HAIR AND TRACE UNIT IN THE LAB?
A FIVE; SIX COUNTING MYSELF.
Q NOW, YOU INDICATED ON DIRECT YESTERDAY THAT WHEN YOU STARTED TO EXAMINE THESE ITEMS YOU USED OPAQUE LIGHTING.
DO YOU MEAN OBLIQUE LIGHTING?
A YES, SORRY.
Q OBLIQUE LIGHTING IS WHERE YOU SHINE A LIGHT FROM THE SIDE ON SOMETHING TO SEE IF YOU CAN SEE SOMETHING, HAIR OR TRACE, THAT SORT OF THING, CORRECT?
A YES. DID I SAY I LOOKED -- WHEN I'M IN FIELD IN I'M LOOKING FOR TRACE EVIDENCE, YES, I USE THE LIGHTING.
ON THIS CASE I DID NOT BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY PURPOSE WITH BOOKING CORONER'S EVIDENCE.
Q OKAY.
SO YOUR SPECIFIC PURPOSE WAS NOT REALLY TO IDENTIFY WHAT HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE WAS ON THOSE ITEMS?
A EXACTLY.
Q IT WAS MERELY TAKING IT FROM THE CORONER'S SYSTEM AND PUTTING IT INTO THE LAPD SYSTEM?
A IN THIS CASE, CORRECT.
Q NOW, WOULD YOU AGREE, GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE, THAT IT IS DIFFICULT, IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE, TO ACTUALLY SEE HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE WITH THE NAKED EYE ON CLOTHING OR OTHER EVIDENTIARY ITEMS?
A IT IS NOT DIFFICULT. THERE ARE SOME ITEMS THAT ARE SMALLER, AND YES, IT IS, BUT FOR THE MOST PART YOU CAN SEE IT IF YOU LOOK CAREFULLY ENOUGH.
Q IF YOU ARE LOOKING CAREFULLY FOR IT?
A EXACTLY.
Q BUT IF YOU ARE NOT LOOKING CAREFULLY FOR IT, IT IS NOT THE SORT OF THINGS THAT JUMP OUT AT YOU AS SOON AS YOU LOOK AT AN EVIDENCE ITEM IS IT?
A CORRECT.
Q WHEN YOU ARE PROCESSING ITEMS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY TRY TO IDENTIFY HAIR AND TRACE, YOU DO FAR MORE THAN JUST LOOK AT IT?
A YES.
Q YOU USE LIGHTING, YOU USE MICROSCOPES, YOU USE OTHER THINGS TO ALLOW YOU TO VISUALIZE WHATEVER EVIDENCE MIGHT BE ON THERE THAT YOU CAN'T SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE?
A CORRECT.
Q NOW, I THINK YOU DESCRIBED THE EVIDENCE COMING FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE AS HOW MANY BAGS TOTAL?
A THERE WERE TWO WHITE MESH BAGS THAT CAME FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
Q AND WERE THOSE MESH BAGS SEALED IN ANY FASHION?
A THEY ARE CLOSED. I DON'T RECALL IN THIS CASE IF IT WAS SEALED WITH TAPE. SOMETIMES THEY ARE. SOMETIMES THEY ARE JUST CLOSED, THEY ARE TIED UP WITH TWINE.
Q OKAY.
INSIDE THE MESH PACKAGE WAS THERE THEN ALSO ANOTHER PACKAGE THAT CONTAINED ALL THE ITEMS FOR EACH BAG?
A YES.
Q WAS THAT SEALED?
A YES, THEY WERE.
Q COULD YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE REPORT THAT YOU TYPED IN JANUARY IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH.
DON'T YOU INDICATE IN THAT THAT THOSE PACKAGES WERE UNSEALED?
A WITH THE TWO UNSEALED PACKAGES I WAS REFERRING TO THE MANILA ENVELOPES THAT CONTAINED THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. THEY ARE SEALED ONLY IN THE SENSE THEY'VE GOT THE CLASP THAT IS FOLDED OUT, OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT SEALED. I WOULDN'T CONSIDER IT AS SEALED.
Q WELL, YOU INDICATED IN YOUR REPORT THAT THE EVIDENCE WAS TRANSPORTED FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE IN TWO UNSEALED PACKAGES, ONE FOR EACH CASE, AND A TIED WHITE MESH BUNDLE FOR EACH VICTIM.
A OKAY.
Q NOW, ARE YOU SAYING NOW THAT WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THERE WERE TWO WHITE MESH BUNDLE PACKAGES AS WELL AS TWO ADDITIONAL PACKAGES?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND THE PACKAGES THAT HAD THE HAIR SAMPLES AND OTHER SWATCHES, THOSE WERE UNSEALED?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU TOOK THOSE ITEMS AND PUT THEM IN FREEZER BAGS OR FROZEN EVIDENCE STORAGE BAGS, CORRECT?
A BAG, YES.
Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE HAD THEY BEEN KEPT THAT WAY AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE?
A COULD YOU RESTATE, PLEASE?
Q TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE HAD THOSE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE, WHICH YOU FELT SHOULD BE KEPT IN A FROZEN STORAGE BAG, BEEN KEPT IN FROZEN STORAGE AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE?
A I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE.
Q WERE THEY IN ANY KIND OF A CONTAINER THAT INDICATED THAT THEY HAD BEEN KEPT FROZEN?
A NO.
Q DID THEY FEEL COLD?
A NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION.
Q WHEN YOU GOT THOSE PACKAGES, YOU GOT THOSE FROM MISS DEGRANDIS?
A YES.
Q AND SHE WORKS WHERE?
A AT THE TIME SHE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE EVIDENCE CONTROL UNIT.
Q DID THOSE PACKAGES, WERE THEY ACCOMPANIED BY ANY KIND OF A LOG OR RECORD THAT SHOWED WHO COLLECTED THEM, WHEN THEY WERE COLLECTED, WHO MIGHT HAVE HAD ACCESS TO THEM, THAT SORT OF THING?
A NO.
Q AND THIS WAS ON JUNE 27TH, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN ALMOST TWO WEEKS AFTER THE MURDERS?
A YES.
Q MORE THAN TWO WEEKS.
DID YOU HAVE ANY WAY OF TELLING, FROM LOOKING AT THOSE BAGS, WHO AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE HAD PUT THEM IN THE BAGS?
A NO.
Q DID YOU HAVE ANY WAY OF KNOWING WHO IN THE CORONER'S OFFICE OR ELSEWHERE MIGHT HAVE HAD ACCESS TO THE BAGS BEFORE YOU GOT THEM?
A NO. EXCUSE ME. THE ONLY THING -- THERE IS A NAME THAT IS LISTED ON THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE ANYWAY. THE ITEMS ARE SIGNED OFF BY SOMEONE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
WHETHER IT IS AN INVESTIGATOR OR THE CORONER, I DO NOT KNOW, BUT THAT IS THE ONLY RECORD THAT I KNOW OF.
Q WHEN YOU SAY SOMEONE SIGNED THEM OFF, WHAT KIND OF A RECORD IS THAT?
A ON THE ENVELOPES THERE IS A PLACE FOR THE CORONER'S -- SOMEONE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE TO SIGN THE ENVELOPES.
Q OKAY.
THAT IS THE ENVELOPES WITH THE SWATCHES, THE HAIR KITS, FINGERNAIL KITS?
A YES.
Q AND THAT IS THE ENVELOPE THAT WAS NOT SEALED?
A NO, THAT IS ON THE SEALED ENVELOPES.
Q ON THE INSIDE?
A RIGHT. THE ENVELOPES THAT ARE NOT SEALED IS JUST THE WAY THE CORONER'S OFFICE GIVES IT TO OUR EVIDENCE CONTROL OFFICER TO TRANSPORT IT. EVERYTHING INSIDE THE ENVELOPES IS SEALED.
Q NOW, THE ONES THAT THE ENVELOPES THAT ARE SEALED, DO THEY HAVE A RECORD ON THEM OF WHO MIGHT HAVE OPENED THOSE BINDLES AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME AND EXAMINED THEM AND CLOSED THEM BACK UP AGAIN?
A IT HAS A NAME ON IT THAT REFERS TO WHO SEALED IT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT HAS BEEN OPENED AGAIN.
Q OKAY.
SO YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER SOMEONE, FROM THE TIME IT WAS PUT IN THOSE BINDLES UNTIL THE TIME YOU GOT IT, OPENED IT AND LOOKED AT IT?
A OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THE TAPE HADN'T BEEN DISTURBED, NO OTHER INDICATION.
Q WHAT KIND OF TAPE WAS IT?
A IT IS A RED SEAL FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE.
Q DID THEIR SEAL REQUIRE THAT A NAME BE WRITTEN ON IT, JUST LIKE YOURS.
A IT DOESN'T HAVE A SPACE ON IT FOR A NAME LIKE OURS DOES, NO.
Q NOW, THE BAGS WITH THE CLOTHING IN THEM, DID THEY HAVE -- HOW WERE THEY SEALED?
A THEY WERE IN A BROWN PAPER BAG, AND ONCE AGAIN, IT JUST HAD CORONER'S RED SEAL PAPER OVER THE BAGS WHERE IT WAS FOLDED OVER.
Q I'M SORRY?
A IT WAS FOLDED OVER AND SEALED.
Q WITH NO INDICATION ON THE BAG AT ALL WHO SEALED IT?
A THERE ARE POSSIBLY SOME INITIALS, BUT I CAN'T -- USUALLY THERE WILL BE INITIALS AND SOMETIMES A DATE. I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY ON THIS CASE WHAT THOSE INITIALS WERE OR FOR SURE IF THERE WERE SOME.
Q ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE ON THERE FOR THIS CASE?
A I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BAGS AGAIN.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU MAKE THIS PART OF YOUR NOTES ABOUT WHAT INFORMATION WAS ON THE BAGS FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE?
A ONLY THE WHITE BINDLES THAT I RECEIVED.
Q NOW, THE BAGS WITH THE CLOTHING, DID -- WAS THERE ANY WAY TO TELL ON THOSE BAGS HOW MANY PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE OPENED THEM UP AND LOOKED AT THEM BEFORE THEY GOT TO YOU?
A NO.
Q WHEN ITEMS COME FROM THE CORONER'S TYPICALLY, IS ONE OF YOUR DUTIES TO PROCESS THOSE KIND OF ITEMS?
A YES.
Q HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU DONE THAT, ROUGHLY?
A AROUND 200.
Q IS IT STANDARD PRACTICE FOR THE CORONER'S OFFICE TO PROVIDE THE CLOTHING IN THE MANNER IN WHICH IT WAS PROVIDED IN THIS CASE?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU EXAMINE THESE ITEMS, YOU DESCRIBED IN CONSIDERABLE DETAIL HOW -- WHAT KIND OF PRECAUTIONS YOU TAKE TO AVOID CONTAMINATION OR HAVING TRACE EVIDENCE MOVED FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER, CORRECT?
A CORRECT.
Q AND YOU PUT ON A LAB COAT. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE FOR THAT?
A TO PROTECT MYSELF AND ALSO TO PROTECT THE ITEMS, SO I DON'T TRANSFER ANY ITEMS FROM MYSELF OR FROM THE EVIDENCE THAT I'M HANDLING TO EACH OTHER.
Q AND IS THE REASON FOR THAT BECAUSE ON OUR CLOTHING AND THINGS THAT WE WEAR, AND MAYBE IN OUR HAIR, WE CAN BE TRANSPORTERS OF HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT?
A YES.
Q THINGS CAN FALL OFF OUR CLOTHING AND WIND UP ON THE EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q CAN FALL OUT OF OUR HAIR AND WIND UP ON THE EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q SO THE LAB COAT THAT YOU WEAR IS DESIGNED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO TRANSFER OF TRACE EVIDENCE FROM YOU TO THE EVIDENCE?
A YES, ONE OF THE FUNCTIONS.
Q IS THAT A STANDARD PRACTICE THAT YOU USE?
A EITHER A CLOTH LAB COAT OR A DISPOSAL LAB COAT, YES.
Q AND IS THAT WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO DO AT LAPD?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU ALSO INDICATED THAT YOU -- SOMETIME THESE ARE EVEN DISPOSABLE LAB COATS?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A DISPOSABLE LAB COAT?
A BASICALLY IT IS THE EASE OF WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND YOUR OWN LAB COAT.
Q OKAY.
BUT IT IS ALSO BECAUSE WHEN YOU PROCESS SOME EVIDENCE WITH A LAB COAT ON, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT EVIDENCE FROM -- HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE FROM WHAT YOU ARE PROCESSING CAN GET ON THAT LAB COAT AND THEN POSSIBLY CONTAMINATE THE NEXT CASE?
A YES.
Q SO HAVING A DISPOSABLE LAB COAT ALLOWS YOU TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING AS WELL?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE WEARING DISPOSABLE SLEEVES?
A YES.
Q ARE THESE MADE OUT OF PAPER, FABRIC?
A IT IS A DISPOSAL PAPER PRODUCT, THE SAME AS THE DISPOSABLE LAB COATS.
Q ARE THOSE DESIGNED PARTICULARLY SO THAT THEY DON'T SHED ANYTHING, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE?
A NO.
Q HOW FAR UP DO THEY GO ON YOUR ARMS?
A FOR ME IT GOES ALL THE WAY UP UNDERNEATH THE ARMS.
Q AND DOWN TO THE WRIST AREA?
A YES.
Q AND AGAIN IS THE PURPOSE FOR THAT A FURTHER PRECAUTION TO PREVENT YOU FROM TRANSFERRING TRACE EVIDENCE TO THE EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q AND THOSE BEING DISPOSABLE, THAT ALSO AFFECTS THE NEXT SCENE THAT MIGHT BE PROCESSED BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO THROW THOSE SLEEVES AWAY THAT MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN TRACE EVIDENCE ON THEM THAT YOU DON'T SEE?
A RIGHT.
Q AND I THINK YOU INDICATED THAT ONE OF THE REASONS YOU WEAR THOSE SLEEVES IS BECAUSE YOU CAN INADVERTENTLY PERHAPS BRUSH SOMETHING IN THE EVIDENCE AND PICK UP SOMETHING ON YOUR SLEEVE WITHOUT KNOWING IT?
A YES.
Q AND WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE NATURE OF HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE IS SUCH THAT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY OR IT CAN BE REMOVED FROM A SURFACE FAIRLY EASILY AND IT CAN BE BLOWN OFF BY THE WIND?
A YES, IT CAN.
Q WHEN YOU WERE EXAMINING THESE ITEMS, YOU -- AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU HAD MOVED TO THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM?
A YES.
Q AND THAT IS THE SAME ROOM WHERE DENNIS FUNG AND ANDREA MAZZOLA HAD PROCESSED EVIDENCE THAT YOU HAD -- I THINK YOU SAID YOU WATCHED MR. YAMAUCHI PROCESS SOME EVIDENCE?
A A COUPLE OF ITEMS, YES.
Q AND THAT IS IN THAT AREA OF THE LAB THAT HAS THE BIG ROLL-UP DOOR ON THE END?
A YES.
Q AND THE DRYING AREAS IN THE BACK WHERE THE BIG WALK-IN KIND OF DRYING --
A YES.
Q -- CONTAINER.
NOW, WHEN YOU GO -- WENT IN TO PROCESS THIS EVIDENCE, WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE IN THERE WITH YOU?
A NOT THAT I RECALL.
Q WAS THAT BIG ROLL-UP DOOR OPENED?
A NO.
Q NOW, YOU WOULDN'T PROCESS EVIDENCE WITH THAT BIG ROLL-UP DOOR OPENED, WOULD YOU?
A (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)
Q NOT WHEN YOU ARE PROCESSING FOR HAIR AND TRACE?
A NO.
Q AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE AIR CURRENTS --
A YES.
Q -- MIGHT COME IN AND MESS UP YOUR EVIDENCE, RIGHT?
A YES.
Q DO YOU TRY AND AVOID HAVING OTHER PEOPLE WANDERING AROUND WHILE YOU ARE DOING THIS TO ALSO PREVENT THE SAME THING, THAT CURRENTS FROM PEOPLE JUST WALKING, FLAPPING THEIR COATS OR WHATEVER MIGHT CAUSE SOME SORT OF DISTURBANCE IN THE TRACE EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q DO YOU WEAR A HAIRNET WHEN YOU ARE DOING THIS?
A WITH THE CORONER'S CASE, NOT USUALLY.
Q NOW, PEOPLE LOSE HAIR EVERYDAY, DON'T THEY?
A YES.
Q SOME MORE THAN OTHERS. I MEAN, PEOPLE LOSE APPROXIMATELY A HUNDRED HAIRS A DAY, DON'T THEY?
A YES.
Q SO WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT, YOUR HAIR MAY BE COMING OFF AT VARIOUS TIMES AT PLACES WHERE YOU FREQUENT?
A YES.
Q ONE REASON FOR WEARING A HAIRNET MIGHT BE TO PREVENT YOUR OWN HAIR FROM CONTAMINATING THE EVIDENCE, CORRECT?
A CORRECT.
Q IF YOU DON'T WEAR SOME KIND OF PROTECTIVE GEAR OVER YOUR HEAD, THEN THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS THAT HAIR MIGHT GET ON THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU DIDN'T INTEND IT TO AND YOU MAY NOT EVEN SEE IT?
A RIGHT.
Q AND WHAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED IN TERMS OF THE PRECAUTIONS YOU TAKE, THAT IS YOUR COMMON PRACTICE IN EVERY CASE THAT YOU WORK ON, ISN'T IT?
A YES.
Q AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT WHEN YOU ARE CONSIDERING -- WHEN YOU ARE PROCESSING ITEMS FOR HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE?
A IN ALL CASES.
Q IN ALL CASES.
DO YOU -- DID YOU TAKE THE SAME TRAINING THAT DENNIS FUNG AND ANDREA MAZZOLA TOOK IN TERMS OF HOW TO PROCESS EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q SO IT IS PART OF YOUR TRAINING PROGRAM THAT WHEN YOU ARE PROCESSING EVIDENCE FOR HAIR TRACE, AND PERHAPS FOR ANY OTHER TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR, YOU WEAR LAB COATS, POSSIBLY DISPOSABLE SLEEVES, GLOVES, YOU AVOID A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE ROOM, ALL THOSE OF PRECAUTIONS THAT YOU ARE TRAINED TO TAKE?
A YES.
Q AND PRESUMABLY THEY ARE TRAINED TO TAKE THOSE AS WELL?
A YES.
Q AND DOES THAT HOLD ALSO FOR CHANGING THE BUTCHER PAPER EACH TIME YOU LOOK AT AN ITEM? WHEN YOU ARE DONE WITH IT, YOU THROW THE PAPER -- YOU LOOK AT THE PAPER FOR TRACE EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q AND IF THERE IS TRACE EVIDENCE, YOU TAKE IT AND YOU POUR IT INTO THE BAG THAT HAS THAT PIECE OF EVIDENCE, CORRECT?
A YES.
Q THAT IS SO IF SOMETHING FALLS OFF A PIECE OF EVIDENCE, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T GET SEPARATED FROM THAT ITEM?
A CORRECT.
Q BECAUSE THERE MAY BE AN EVIDENTIARY VALUE IN WHATEVER FALLS OFF OF AN ITEM?
A CORRECT.
Q IT IS ALSO VERY COMMON THAT THINGS FALL OFF OF ITEMS, HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE CAN FALL OFF OF ITEMS FAIRLY EASILY?
A THEY CAN.
Q IT IS NOT UNUSUAL AT ALL WHEN YOU TAKE A CLOTHING OUT TO LOOK AT IT THAT YOU ARE GOING TO WIND UP WITH SOMETHING ON THAT PAPER THAT NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED?
A ACTUALLY IT IS NOT AS COMMON AS YOU ARE MAKING IT SOUND. IF YOU ARE CAREFUL, YOU CAN KEEP THINGS FROM FALLING DOWN.
Q OKAY.
BUT THERE WERE -- IN MANY OF THE ITEMS THAT YOU EXAMINED HERE, THERE WERE EXTRA BINDLES THAT HAD BEEN PUT IN THE BAGS BECAUSE ITEMS HAD COME OFF OF THE EVIDENCE AND SOMEONE HAD PUT THEM IN A BINDLE TO MAKE SURE THEY STAYED WITH THE EVIDENCE?
A YES.
Q AND THAT WAS TRUE -- I MEAN, HOW MANY BINDLES WERE THERE LIKE THAT IN JUST THIS CASE?
A THERE WERE THREE ADDITIONAL BINDLES.
Q SO IN THIS CASE, IS THAT AN UNUSUAL -- WELL, LET ME REPHRASE.
WHEN YOU ORDINARILY PROCESS CORONER'S CASES, DO THEY, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, SAVE EVIDENCE THAT FALLS OFF OF ITEMS?
A THEY HAVE, YES.
Q NOW, IT IS NOT USUAL AT ALL THAT YOU GET ITEMS FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE THAT HAVE BINDLES LIKE -- LIKE IN THIS CASE, IS IT?
A NO.
Q DO YOU EVER SEE BINDLES IN THE EVIDENCE ITEMS LIKE YOU SAW IN THIS CASE?
A NO.
Q SO YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER THE CORONER'S OFFICE ROUTINELY SAVES ITEMS -- TRACE EVIDENCE THAT MIGHT FALL OFF OF EVIDENCE ITEMS?
A ON SEVERAL OTHER CASES I HAVE ALSO RECEIVED ITEMS SUCH AS THE HAIR. THEY WILL PUT IN PHYSICAL EVIDENCE PACKETS AND THEY WILL STATE THAT THE HAIR OR BLOOD SCRAPINGS WAS REMOVED FROM THE VICTIM'S SHIRT, JACKET, UNDER THE SLEEVES, WHATEVER.
Q OKAY.
THOSE ARE ITEMS THAT THEY SPECIFICALLY TAKE OFF OF -- OF A BODY OR OFF OF EVIDENCE, CORRECT?
A YES.
Q IN TERMS OF ITEMS THAT MIGHT FALL OFF THAT THEY WEREN'T INTENDING TO TAKE OFF JUST BY VIRTUE OF THEM INSPECTING AN ITEM, THEY DON'T ROUTINELY PUT THOSE IN BINDLES SO THAT THEY ARE PRESERVED, DO THEY?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: IN YOUR EXPERIENCE DO YOU EVER SEE BINDLES THAT ARE -- THAT HAVE WRITTEN ON THEM OR INDICATED THAT THIS -- THIS IS DEBRIS THAT FELL OFF AN ITEM WHEN IT WAS INSPECTED?
A THIS IS THE ONLY CASE I'VE SEEN THAT, YES.
Q NOW, THE BINDLES IN THIS CASE THAT YOU SAW HAD WRITING ON IT INDICATING THAT SOMETHING OCCURRED WHILE DR. BADEN WAS PRESENT, CORRECT?
A YES.
Q AND GARY SIGLAR, WHOSE NAME IS ON THOSE BINDLES, IS A CORONER'S EMPLOYEE, IS HE NOT?
A I DON'T KNOW HIS STATUS.
Q HAVE YOU EVER CHECKED TO SEE WHO HE WORKS FOR?
A NO.
Q YOU ARE AWARE THAT DR. BADEN IS A DEFENSE WITNESS, DEFENSE EXPERT?
A I AM NOW.
Q NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU HAD SEEN COLLIN YAMAUCHI AND PERHAPS OTHERS WORKING ON EVIDENCE ITEMS IN THIS CASE EARLIER?
A YES.
Q NOW, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT DAY THAT WAS?
A NO.
Q WAS THAT IN THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM?
A IN THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM AND ALSO OTHER AREAS OF THE LAB.
Q WHAT OTHER AREAS?
A TRACE AND I BELIEVE SEROLOGY.
Q WHAT ITEMS DID YOU SEE BEING WORKED ON IN THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM?
A I REMEMBER SEEING COLLIN HANDLING THE GLOVE. I BELIEVE THAT WAS VERY SHORTLY AFTER THE HOMICIDES.
Q WAS THAT IN THE MORNING?
A I DON'T RECALL.
Q WHEN HE WAS HANDLING THE GLOVE, WHAT WAS HE DOING?
A I BELIEVE HE WAS LOOKING FOR BLOOD, LOOKING AT OR LOOKING FOR BLOOD ON THE GLOVE.
Q NOW, WHEN HE WAS HANDLING THE GLOVE, WAS HE MOVING IT AROUND LOOKING AT IT -- WAS HE LOOKING AT IT UNDER A MICROSCOPE?
A NO.
Q SO HE WAS DOING JUST A VISUAL SEARCH?
A YES.
Q AND HANDLING IT AND MOVING IT AROUND, TURNING IT OVER, I ASSUME, AND LOOKING EVERYWHERE HE COULD.
A HE WAS MINIMALLY HANDLING IT. I REMEMBER IT BEING ON THE TABLE. I DON'T REMEMBER ROUGH HANDLING OR BOUNCING AROUND OR ANYTHING.
Q OKAY.
BUT HE WAS MOVING IT AROUND WITH HIS HAND?
A YES.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM TAKING ANY CUTTINGS FROM THE GLOVE?
A I DON'T RECALL.
Q WAS DENNIS FUNG THERE WHEN HE WAS HANDLING THE GLOVE?
A NO.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER ITEMS OF EVIDENCE THAT WERE BEING WORKED ON AT THAT TIME?
A AT THAT TIME? NO.
Q NOW, YOU HAD GONE INTO THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM, CORRECT?
A YES.
Q SO THERE WOULD BE A RECORD OF YOU GOING IN THE DOOR THERE?
A YES.
Q HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE WERE IN THERE LOOKING AROUND?
A NO ONE ELSE.
Q WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT WHEN THE EVIDENCE STARTED COMING IN ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THAT EVERYBODY IN THE LAB KNEW ABOUT IT?
A I DON'T KNOW ABOUT EVERYBODY.
Q I MEAN THIS WAS A BIG CASE, WASN'T IT?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: WE HAVE A LOT OF BIG CASES AND WE HAD A LOT GOING ON AT THAT TIME, TOO, SO --
Q BY MR. BLASIER: THIS WAS A BIG CASE, WASN'T IT?
A I GUESS, YES.
Q OKAY.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS YOU WERE GOING INTO THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM WAS TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON?
A NO. I HAD BUSINESS IN THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM.
Q WHAT KIND OF BUSINESS?
A I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR TAKING CARE OF THE EVIDENCE PROCESSING ROOM AND I DON'T KNOW AT THAT TIME IF I WAS GOING IN BECAUSE I HAD CORONER'S EVIDENCE OR WHAT THE SITUATION WAS OR IF I WAS GOING IN TO STRAIGHTEN UP.
Q OKAY.
ARE YOU AWARE THAT THERE WERE TWO OTHER CASES WITH EVIDENCE IN THAT ROOM AT THE SAME TIME?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS EVIDENCE IN OTHER CASES FROM THAT ROOM AT THE SAME TIME THAT MR. YAMAUCHI WAS HANDLING THE GLOVE?
A I DON'T PERSONALLY RECALL.
Q THAT WOULDN'T BE UNUSUAL, WOULD IT, TO HAVE EVIDENCE FROM MORE THAN ONE CASE IN THAT ROOM AT THE SAME TIME?
A NOT AT ALL.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: NOW, I THINK YOU HAD INDICATED THAT YOU HAD ALSO SEEN SOME WORK BEING DONE ON THE KNIT CAP?
A I REMEMBER SEEING THE KNIT CAP, YES.
Q WHERE WAS THAT?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE TRACE UNIT.
Q AND WHO WAS WORKING ON IT?
A I DON'T RECALL.
Q WAS IT SUSAN BROCKBANK?
A POSSIBLY.
Q BUT IT COULD BE SOMEBODY ELSE?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: WAS THERE -- WAS THIS AROUND THE SAME TIME THAT YOU SAW MR. YAMAUCHI HANDLING THE GLOVE?
A NO.
Q THAT WAS AT -- HOW MUCH DIFFERENCE IN TIME WAS THERE? WAS IT LIKE A WEEK LATER OR LATER IN THE DAY?
A I DON'T RECALL.
Q YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION OF THAT?
A NO.
Q WHAT OTHER EVIDENCE DID YOU SEE OTHER PEOPLE WORKING ON, THAT YOU CAN RECALL?
A I REMEMBER SEEING EVIDENCE. I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS. IT IS JUST A GENERALIZATION.
I REMEMBER THERE WAS EVIDENCE IN THE ROOM. PEOPLE WERE WORKING ON VARIOUS THINGS. I DON'T REMEMBER SPECIFICS.
Q OKAY.
PEOPLE WERE WORKING ON VARIOUS THINGS IN THE SAME ROOM?
A IN VARIOUS ROOMS, YES.
Q AND WAS THIS ALL RIGHT SHORTLY AFTER THE HOMICIDE?
A NO.
Q THE HAIR KITS THAT WERE IN EACH OF THE ENVELOPES CONTAINED SEVERAL DIFFERENT KIND OF HAIR, DID THEY NOT?
A YES.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THOSE DIFFERENT KINDS WERE?
A YES.
Q WHAT WERE THEY?
A FOR MR. GOLDMAN IT WAS HEAD HAIR, FACIAL HAIR AND ARM HAIR.
Q NOW, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCEDURE USED TO TAKE HEAD HAIR EXEMPLARS?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: AND THAT PROCEDURE INVOLVES COLLECTING A SUBSTANTIAL -- A NUMBER OF HAIRS FROM A PERSON FROM DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE HEAD; IS IT NOT?
A YES.
Q AND HOW MANY HAIRS ORDINARILY ARE COLLECTED FOR AN EXEMPLAR?
A I HAVE NO IDEA.
Q APPROXIMATELY A HUNDRED? IS THAT NORMAL?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, BEYOND THE SCOPE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE I DO NOT KNOW.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: HOW ABOUT IN THE PROCEDURES THAT YOU USE WHEN YOU COLLECT AN EXEMPLAR?
A AROUND A HUNDRED, YES.
Q AND THE REASON FOR DOING THAT -- OR IS THE REASON FOR DOING THAT SO THAT YOU GET A REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE OF HAIRS FROM A PERSON'S HEAD?
THE COURT: NOW WE ARE BEYOND THE SCOPE.
MR. BLASIER: OKAY.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. BLASIER: COULD WE HAVE THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE PUT IN YESTERDAY, SPECIFICALLY EXHIBIT 414?
THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. BLASIER: MAY WE PUT PEOPLE'S 414 ON THE ELMO?
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. BLASIER: CAN WE ZOOM IN ON THE LARGE ENVELOPE ON THE LEFT.
Q NOW, MISS LEWIS, LOOKING AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH, I NOTE THAT THERE IS THE NO. 75 AT THE TOP OF IT THAT IS CROSSED OFF AND THE NO. 83 IS WRITTEN IN WITH YOUR INITIALS?
A CORRECT.
Q AND THAT IS -- THAT IS BECAUSE YOU STARTED OUT WITH A CERTAIN NUMBERING SYSTEM, AND NOT REALIZING THAT YOU HAD SOME OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU WANTED TO KEEP IN SEQUENCE?
A YES.
Q AND YOU CHANGED THOSE NUMBERS LATER?
A YES.
Q AND THE PROPER PROCEDURE TO DO THAT IS CROSS OUT THE NUMBER BUT NOT CROSS IT OUT SO BADLY THAT YOU CAN'T READ IT, RIGHT?
A CORRECT.
Q TO WRITE THE NEW NUMBER?
A YES.
Q PUT YOUR INITIALS ON THIS.
A YES.
Q SO YOU ARE ABLE TO RECONSTRUCT LATER ON THAT THAT IS WHAT YOU DID?
A YES.
Q AND THAT IS WHAT THE OLD NUMBER IS AND THAT IS WHAT THE NEW NUMBER IS, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT?
A YES.
Q AND IS THAT THE SAME PROCEDURE THAT
YOU ARE TAUGHT AT LAPD, THAT DENNIS FUNG AND
ANDREA MAZZOLA HAD THE SAME KIND OF TRAINING?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: THAT IS PART OF YOUR TRAINING AT LAPD IN THE SID UNIT, THAT THAT IS THE WAY MAKE -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY WRITTEN ON AN ITEM, YOU DO IT THAT WAY?
A THAT IS THE WAY I WAS TRAINED FROM THE POLICE ACADEMY.
Q OKAY.
NOW, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE SHIRT, THE BAG THAT CAME FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE. IS IT ACCURATE THAT THE ONLY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION ON THAT BAG WAS "SHIRT"?
A I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BAG AGAIN.
Q OKAY.
DO WE HAVE -- IS THAT ON -- HAVE YOU SEEN A PICTURE OF THAT YESTERDAY?
A YES.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE WITNESS: YES, IT STATES "SHIRT."
Q BY MR. BLASIER: IS THERE ANYWHERE ON THAT BAG ANY IDENTIFYING INFORMATION STATING WHAT CASE IT IS FROM?
A NO.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU PRESERVE EVIDENCE IN A CONTAINER LIKE A BAG, YOU WRITE DOWN INFORMATION THAT IDENTIFIES WHAT CASE IT IS CONNECTED TO, DON'T YOU?
A YES.
Q THAT IS STANDARD PROCEDURE, ISN'T IT?
A YES.
Q IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THE HABIT AND PRACTICE AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE IS TO NOT WRITE DOWN THE IDENTIFICATION OF WHAT CASE IS INVOLVED FOR A PARTICULAR CONTAINER?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: IN THE OTHER CORONER'S CASES THAT YOU HAVE WORKED ON, IS THAT A STANDARD PRACTICE, THAT THEY WILL HAVE CLOTHING IN A BAG AND NOT HAVE ANY IDENTIFICATION AS TO WHAT CASE IT CAME FROM?
A ON THE BROWN PAPER BAGS THAT THE CLOTHING IS PHYSICALLY IN OR INITIALLY IN, NO, IT HAS NO IDENTIFICATION. ON THE WHITE MESH BAG WHICH CONTAINS ALL THE CLOTHING FOR SAID -- FOR ONE VICTIM, YES, IT DOES.
Q OKAY.
YOU WOULD NEVER, THOUGH, PUT A CONTAINER THAT IS UNMARKED AS TO A CASE INSIDE ANOTHER CONTAINER? ISN'T IT YOUR PRACTICE THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WHAT CASE AN ITEM GOES WITH SO IN CASE IT GETS SEPARATED FROM THE LARGE BAG YOU NO WHERE IT CAME FROM?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: WHEN YOU PUT BUTCHER PAPER DOWN ON THE TABLE TO LOOK AT AN ITEM, WHAT COLOR IS THAT PAPER?
A IN THIS CASE IT WAS WHITE.
Q SOMETIMES DO YOU USE BROWN PAPER?
A YES.
Q IS IT MORE DIFFICULT TO SEE TRACE EVIDENCE WITH BROWN PAPER?
A IT DEPENDS ON THE TRACE EVIDENCE, YES.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHAT COLOR PAPER THE CORONER'S OFFICE USES WHEN THEY COLLECT THINGS OR IF THEY USE PAPER?
A IN THIS CASE THERE WAS WHITE PAPER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR HABIT IS, IF IT IS ALWAYS WHITE.
Q NOW, THE WHITE PAPER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, THE BINDLES THAT ARE INDICATED WITH DR. BADEN'S NAME ON THEM?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU TOOK THE SHIRT OUT OF THE BAG, IT OBVIOUSLY HAD BEEN STORED WET, HAD IT NOT?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: IT WAS MOLDY, WASN'T IT?
A IT HAD SPOTS OF MOLD ON IT, YES.
Q AND IT HAD A VERY STRONG SMELL TO IT, DID IT NOT?
A SMELL IS RELATIVE. IN THIS CASE I DON'T RECALL ANY STRONG SMELL.
Q AND WHEN -- THE PROPER PROCEDURE FOR PACKAGING CLOTHING THAT MAY BE COVERED WITH BLOOD OR HAVE A LOT OF MOISTURE IN IT IS TO DRY IT FIRST, CORRECT?
A YES.
Q AND THE REASON FOR DOING THAT IS TO PREVENT SUCH THINGS AS MOLD GROWING ON IT?
A YES.
Q SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT WHEN SOMETHING HAS BEEN PUT IN A BAG AND MOLD GROWS ON IT, THAT IT PROBABLY HAS NOT BEEN PRESERVED PROPERLY?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION, IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: YES.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: AND YOU HAVE NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE WHO TOOK THE SHIRT, WHO PUT IT IN THE BAG AND WHO MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN IN AND OUT OF THE BAG AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME UNTIL IT GOT TO YOU?
A CORRECT.
Q NOW, I THINK YOU SAID THAT YOU OPENED THOSE BINDLES, THE WHITE BINDLES, BECAUSE THEY WERE UNUSUAL?
DID I HEAR THAT CORRECTLY?
A YES.
Q AND THEY WERE UNUSUAL THIS SENSE THAT YOU GENERALLY DON'T SEE ITEMS COMING FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE WITH BINDLES IN THEM?
A CORRECT.
Q AND GREG MATHESON TOLD YOU TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN THOSE UP?
A YES.
Q DID THOSE BINDLES CONTAIN IDENTIFYING INFORMATION AS TO THE DATE THEY WERE MADE?
A NO.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. BLASIER: LET ME SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S NO. 416.
AND COULD WE ZOOM IN RIGHT BELOW WHERE IT SAYS "77."
NOW, THIS IS THE BINDLE THAT INDICATES IT CAME FROM UNDER THE SHIRT OR THE JACKET?
A YES.
Q NOW, THERE IS A DATE 6/22/94, 1430, AND I BELIEVE THAT IS A G.S., ALTHOUGH I'M NOT SURE.
A YES.
Q NOW, IS THAT AN INDICATION OF THE DATE IT WAS COLLECTED AND WHO COLLECTED IT?
A IT IS AN INDICATION OF SOME DATE. I MISSPOKE. I HAD FORGOTTEN ABOUT THAT DATE ON THERE.
Q OKAY.
AND THE OTHER BINDLES HAVE DATES AND INITIALS ON THEM INDICATING WHEN DR. BADEN AND MR. SIGLAR PUT THEM IN THERE?
A I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY.
MR. BLASIER: LET'S LOOK AT 422. AND CAN WE BLOW-UP THE SECOND FROM THE LEFT.
Q AND THAT IS THE BINDLE MARKED NO. 75 INDICATED FROM UNDER RON GOLDMAN'S SHOES?
A YES.
Q AND THAT ALSO HAS A DATE AND INITIALS ON IT, DOESN'T IT?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND WHEN YOU TESTIFIED THAT THERE WERE
NO SUCH DATES ON THOSE, WHAT HAD YOU BEEN USING TO REFRESH THEIR MEMORY?
A I WAS USING MY NOTES WHERE I HAD JUST LISTED WHAT THE BINDLES SAID, NOT EVERYBODY WHO HANDLED THE BINDLES.
Q OKAY.
SO IN PREPARATION FOR YOUR TESTIMONY YOU DID NOT LOOK AT THESE PICTURES?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THEM YESTERDAY WHEN YOU TESTIFIED, WHEN THEY WERE ON THE ELMO AND WHEN THEY WERE HANDED TO YOU, DID YOU LOOK AT THEM CAREFULLY TO SEE IF YOUR TESTIMONY WAS CORRECT?
A I LOOKED AT THEM FOR THE QUESTION THAT I WAS ASKED TO MAKE SURE THAT QUESTION WAS -- MY ANSWER WAS CORRECT FOR THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION.
I DON'T RECALL THE QUESTION IN REGARDS TO SIGNATURE -- I'M SORRY, THE DATE AND TIME ON IT.
Q OKAY.
YOU DON'T REMEMBER BEING ASKED ANY INDICATION AS TO WHEN THOSE BINDLES WERE MADE?
A NO, I DON'T.
Q YESTERDAY DID YOU USE THE PHRASE AT SOME POINT YOU STOPPED RESEALING BAGS THAT YOU WERE PREPARING BECAUSE YOU HAD GOTTEN ONE SURPRISE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE AND THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN OTHERS, WORDS TO THIS EFFECT?
A YES.
Q AND BY "SURPRISE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE," YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE BINDLES?
A YES.
Q ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE FACT THAT SOME SEPARATE EVIDENCE ITEMS WERE STORED IN THE SAME BAGS?
A COULD YOU REPHRASE, PLEASE?
Q IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS A SURPRISE TO YOU THAT SOME ITEMS OF CLOTHING, SEPARATE ITEMS OF CLOTHING WERE STORED IN THE SAME BAGS?
A THAT THEY HAD MULTIPLE ITEMS OF CLOTHING IN ONE BAG, THAT IS NOT A SURPRISE, NO.
Q IT IS NOT A SURPRISE TO YOU?
A NO.
Q THAT IS NOT PROPER PROCEDURE, IS IT?
A I DON'T KNOW --
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. OBJECTION.
EXCEEDS THE SCOPE OF EXPERTISE, FOUNDATION, AND IT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW THE CORONER'S OFFICE PROCEDURE FOR STORING BAGS. I KNOW LOS ANGELES SID'S.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: YOU WOULD NEVER PUT TWO ITEMS OF CLOTHING IN THE SAME BAG, WOULD YOU?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, THAT IS IRRELEVANT.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: IF THE ITEMS WERE PICKED UP TOGETHER, THEN, YES, I WOULD.
Q BY MR. BLASIER: YOU REALIZE THAT ANYTIME YOU PUT TWO SEPARATE ITEMS IN THE SAME CONTAINER YOU ESSENTIALLY ARE CROSS -- IF YOU FIND HAIR AND TRACE EVIDENCE ON EITHER OF THOSE ITEMS, YOU CAN NO LONGER SAY WHICH ONE THEY CAME FROM, CAN YOU?
A YES, BUT IF I'VE GOT SOCKS LAYING ON TOP OF A PAIR OF PANTS AT THE CRIME SCENE, THERE IS ALSO CROSS-CONTAMINATION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED BETWEEN THE TWO ITEMS, THEY COULD THEN BE GATHERED AND PUT INTO THE SAME BAG.
Q SO IF THERE IS CROSS-CONTAMINATION, FOR INSTANCE, FROM A PANT LEG TOUCHING A SOCK, YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED
